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Citogenesis on Sihang Warehouse - Thoughts?

Since the 03:45, 9 April 2006 revision the Defense of Sihang Warehouse Article has stated the Japanese attackers were the IJA 3rd Division. Later at 02:24, 11 April 2006 more information was added. Neither of these edits had inline citations added but despite this the order of battle was left more or less unquestioned for well over a decade. It was not until 24 March 2023 when I took notice and updated it to reflect Japanese sources stating it was in fact not the IJA 3rd Division but rather the IJN's Shanghai SNLF.

Since then some editors have taken issue with this change—alleging the IJA 3rd Division was in fact involved and cited Eric Niderost's "Chinese Alamo" to assert the 3rd Division's involvement. Niderost's article, published in December 2007, is un-cited and appears to have paraphrased the unsourced Japanese OOB from the 9 Aug 2007 or later revision of the wiki article:

07:17, 9 August 2007 revision of the Defense of Sihang Warehouse Article:

The Japanese 3rd Division (one of the most elite IJA divisions at the time)..." "...enjoyed air and naval superiority, as well as access to armoured vehicles, likely Type 94 Te-Ke tankettes, and also Type 89 mortars."

Niderost, Dec 2007:

"The Sihang defenders faced the Japanese 3rd Division, considered one of the best of the Imperial Japanese Army. They also had mortar teams, artillery, and armor—probably Type 94 Te-Ke tankettes."

As of writing this, the article still erroneously states the IJA 3rd Division was involved using a handful of sources including Niderost's article and a recent book that also cites Niderost. I have a detailed thread on the article's talk page discussing the participating Japanese forces, but have not heard much feedback at all. I would love to hear some input from others. At the very least, how do we handle this citogenesis/circular reference when other editors insist it is a valid source? Adachi1939 (talk) 22:35, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

A week and not a single comment on this matter? Does nobody care about historical accuracy on subjects related to the Second Sino-Japanese War? Adachi1939 (talk) 21:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I will add that the Sino-Japanese war is comparatively obscure so it is unlikely many editors will want to jump in to begin with. However, my view (based more on general site policy than the specifics of this battle, since I also know little) is that since Wahreit, the other user in this content dispute, hasn't replied to the talk page since late July, removing the claim you believe to be erroneous would be justified. If they revert without adding any comment to the TP, I'd suggest going to either WP:3O or WP:EWN, whichever you believe is more appropriate. Loafiewa (talk) 23:54, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Proposal: moving RfC requests to their own section

We've been getting a lot of requests for participation in RfCs, requested moves, and the like. For me, they make it difficult to scan the page and follow ongoing actual discussions. Would anyone object if we started moving those requests into their own section placed at the top of the page? (Is that a thing that could be automated?) Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 14:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Intothatdarkness 16:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

@The ed17: - alternatively they could be on a sub-page - WT:MILHIST/RFC with a link from here and the project page. Mjroots (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Various MOS talk pages (eg WT:MOS) maintain a list of RMs, RfCs and other discussions as a first section of their talk page. This system seems to work quite well and might be a model to follow here. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Intothatdarkness, Mjroots, and Cinderella157: I'm thinking the two options there (subpage or first section) mainly differ in watchlist notifications as long as we transclude it here. Any thoughts on whether it would be better to have a subpage for people to watch, or to keep the notifications centralized on this page? Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 04:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I like the idea of a subpage personally, but am fine with anything that keeps these notifications from scattering through the main discussions like they do currently. Intothatdarkness 11:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

A sub-page transcluded here would work. I think it is better centralised here for visibility. A separate page would have an independent archive and be easier to search. WT:MOS uses a different strategy to record past discussions. Cinderella157 (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

If an editor has a page watchlisted, doesn't that automatically watchlist subpages of that page? Either method works though. Mjroots (talk)

Requested move at Talk:Lam Dorji#Requested move 26 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Lam Dorji#Requested move 26 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 14:36, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Spica-class torpedo boat

Spica-class torpedo boat can anyone complete the citations for Astore and Spica in Swedish service please? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 19:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Done--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:28, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks ;O) Keith-264 (talk) 20:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Siege of Fort Pulaski

Hi, I have been doing a lot of copy editing to the subject article. I would observe that it (still) tends to repeat itself in places, making it a bit disjointed, and has a degree of intricate detail that would be considered unsuitable in an encyclopedic article. I'm going to give it a break for now but somebody with a Civil War interest might like to do some more copy editing. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 02:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll give it a look when I have a little more time, which won't be in the next week or so. I toured the fort with a group that also stopped at other forts or gun positions in the area about four years ago. It doesn't make me an expert but does give me a feel for the place and what might I may recall having been been emphasized by the guide. More importantly, I have a few books that certainly include coverage of the various actions at and in the vicinity of the fort. The picture with the article shows a quite familiar setting to me. The apparent covered opening just outside the fort leads to an underground tunnel or storage depot of some sort. FWIW. Donner60 (talk) 23:27, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Operation White (15–18 November 1940)

Operation White trying to complete a table of the Italian ships involved but can't find details of Italian destroyers only that 14 were involved from Bragadin. Can anyone help? Thanks. Keith-264 (talk) 13:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tel Aviv–Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack#Requested move 29 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tel Aviv–Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack#Requested move 29 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 17:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

More eyes needed on UN offensive into North Korea and Pusan Perimeter offensive

More eyes needed on recent changes on UN offensive into North Korea and Pusan Perimeter offensive and latest discussions on their respective Talk Pages please. Mztourist (talk) 06:42, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion potentially affects articles which incorporate, nearly verbatim, large portions of "United States Army in the Korean War: South to the Naktong, North to the Yalu June - November 1950". At the very least, input is needed concerning modifications to that text (degree of copy-editing, level of detail, etc..) - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 16:09, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Włodzimierz Krzyżanowski

An editor has requested that Włodzimierz Krzyżanowski be moved to Wladimir Krzyzanowski, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Hog Farm _Talk 00:29, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

Capitalisation (yet again) now running at M40 Gun Motor Carriage

Remove all capitalisation in proper names, see M40 Gun Motor Carriage. Your comments are invited. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Does it really matter anymore? Wikipedia is going to do what it wants regardless. Arial Rocket Artillery was changed without any apparent discussion on its page. Removing capitalization is apparently the "in" thing to do these days. Intothatdarkness 11:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Do we give up so easily? This one isn't quite such a bad change as when Motor Torpedo Boat and Steam Gun Boat (the RN proper name form for specific classes) was turned into the generic motor torpedo boat (worldwide) and steam gun boat (a term that has just not been used otherwise). Nor is it so obviously wrong as for the Apollo space program Lunar Module. Yet still, it's wrong. It's abandoning WP:RS in favour of WP:MOS. All driven by a single editor who seems to make few other edits otherwise. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

I did find it interesting that the editor changed ARA with no discussion I can see. I've also seen this trend crop up in other (to me inappropriate) areas. Ignoring RS in this way feels like a dangerous trend. Intothatdarkness 13:54, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Aerial Rocket Artillery [1] and it's a B class article, so hardly an unchecked stub- or start- class. I'll list it at WP:RM/TR. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hesitant to do much with it since I did a great deal of work on that article. Intothatdarkness 14:27, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

It's just the same as was done at Rover Light Armoured Car. Ignore any sources, impose WP:MOS on it despite, no discussion beforehand. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:H2X#Requested move 16 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:H2X#Requested move 16 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject (a discussion about proper vs. common names is at a stalemate and could use more eyes.) Oops, Andy beat me to it. Sammy D III (talk) 12:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)