Talk:Jats

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Article history

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Jats was copied or moved into Jat with this edit on 17 July 2005. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

No consensus, 4 October 2019, from Jat people to Jat.
Not moved, 8 April 2020, from Jat people to Jat (people).
Moved, 24 May 2022, from Jat people to Jats.

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 June 2024

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"Jats are descendants of Ham" as referenced in https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:HMElliotHistVol1.djvu/138#cite_note-1 Sachidananda Hullahalli (talk) 11:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. You'll need a more reliable source than what you've cited, particularly as Ham is generally not considered a historical figure. – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 14:51, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

== Sindhi Zutts are not the same as Punjabi Jatts = Theory Debunked They are the SAME

Their is one big mistake with it. I am from sindh Karachi. Their are no Local sindhi Jatts all the Jatts in sindh are either from Pakistani Punjab Province or indian punjab that came here after partition. The Zutt which was mentioned by caliphate are a local Sindhi clan who still exists but are camel herders. I think their is a confusion here because of the same sound. Yaqub50 (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zutt is an arabic / persian word for the ethnicity jatt 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 15:56, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Zutt" is indeed the Arabic word for Jatt, but it's not accurate. It's like the word "Firanj/Farang" (Frank) being used to describe Crusaders, even though all Crusaders were obviously not Franks. Even on the Zutt page itself, it mentions how Arabs included groups like Andaghars, Sayabijas, Qufs, and Jadgals. It's a confederation at best.

Otherwise, at least make a distinction between the high Iran_N Sindhi Jatts, and the high Steppe Jatts (of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Western Uttar-Pradesh). They are genetically and culturally distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:11, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and those jatts forefathers which were/are , in indian / pakistani punjab who have came after pation , migrated from the broader balochistan and sindh region in the medeval to Punjab in an attempt to find sufficient agriculture fertility 2001:8003:471E:D100:1928:6BEA:EB44:8DD3 (talk) 16:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. Jatts do not originate from Sindh, contrary to what this article claims. If they did, then all Jatts would have the characteristically high Iran_N genetic component found in Sindhis (instead of the unusually high Steppe, especially among Haryanvis). There is also archeological evidence of Jatt figures like Shalinder. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. Even if we ignore that Zutt was a generic term for Indus pastoralists, we cannot ignore that Sindhi Jatts (Sammats, Lohanas, Jamotes) and Punjabi Jatts are culturally and genetically distinct. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 01:16, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i am not sure if you are saying im correct or wrong . 2001:8003:471E:D100:45D1:EAF:1913:2C3F (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add this as highlight

Khan, Zahoor Ali (1997). "ZAMINDARI CASTE CONFIGURATION IN THE PUNJAB, c.1595 — MAPPING THE DATA IN THE". Proceedings of the Indian History Congress. 58: 336. ISSN 2249-1937. JSTOR 44143925. They appear to be in two blocks, divided by a sparse zone between the Sutlej and the Sarasvati basin. The two blocks, in fact, represent two different segments of the Jats, the western one (Panjab) known as Jat (with short vowel) and the other (Haryanvi) as Jaat (with long vowel). 119.42.57.164 (talk) 18:15, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sidhu is not a Jaat caste anymore

Someone cleverely used The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names in Britain and Ireland this book to play with words and references. But now I have removed it. So, remove this caste from here. HistorianV (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 August 2024

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I want to add Dhankhar in as one of jat clans, as Dhankhar is also a jat clan. 0710Tejas (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable and verifiable source for the claim; read WP:RS, WP:V. Ekdalian (talk) 18:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

A Sacatled part in the leading peragraph is explicitly spreading wrong information about the present circumstances prior to Jats status in Bhramanical society, especially their miscount th in Bhramanical Society of fourfold system is terabily wrong while the Bulk majority of jats mainly constiture in relgious Institute such as Sikh and Islam faith which is the well known fact despite such falshood nerration the remaining Jats dosent follow the Mainstream Hinduism religion and suppose to vana kept outside the fourfold society of varna sytem so they don't comprised any integral unit in Shudra Or Vaishyacaste based distinguishion 117.206.212.10 (talk) 07:11, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 10:12, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sindh as the proposed homeland of Jatts

Jatts do not originate from Sindh, contrary to what this article claims. The main proponent of this theory, Irfan Habib, has since retracted his supported on account of the archeological discovery of the Kanswa Inscription, which mentions the 5th century "Jit" ruler (Raja Shalinder) in Sialkot, before the proposed Zutt migrations of 11th-16th centuries.

Moreover, if the Jatts did originate in Sindh, then most Jatts would have some evidence of the characteristically high Iran_N genetic component found in Sindhis (instead of the unusually high Steppe, especially in Haryanvis). Besides Pahari Jatts (who probably mixed with Gujjar-like people), this does not hold true (from Majha Punjab to Western Uttar-Pradesh).

Another important point is that "Zutt" is likely a generic term for Indus pastoralists (and in the article itself, it mentions how Arabs sometimes included seemingly separate groups like Andaghars, Sayabijas, Qufs, Jadgals, al-Qayqaniyya, and others... and sometimes they did not). "Zutt" is most likely similar to the term "Firanj/Farang" (Frank).

Ultimately, this theory is outdated and this article needs to be revised. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 03:52, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On Muslim Jatts

If we are going to stick to the theory that Zutt = Jatt, then the Muslim Jatt section needs to be flushed out more.

I recommend adding figures like Abu al-Khasib Marzuq (Abbasid-General and Conqueror of Tabaristan), Al-Sari ibn Al-Hakam (Governor of Egypt), Abu al-Faraj Muhammad (Buyid-Minister of Baghdad), and Abu Hatim al-Zutti (Qarmatian Preacher and Founder of the Baqliyya sect). Also include the Zutt contributions in the Conquest of Iran and Sindh, and the later Zutt Rebellion in Iraq. That's the least that can be added in terms of Zutti contributions.

You should also add non-Zutt figures like Saadullah Khan (Thahim Jatt, Grand Vizier of the Mughals, forefather of Nawab Mutawassil Khan and Nizam Muzaffar Jang Hidayat), and Ali Muhammad Khan (Nain Jatt, founder of the Rohilla dynasty which ruled the Kingdom of Rohilkhand and the Princely State of Rampur).

There are other figures that I've not mentioned, but the above would be a good start. KhandaEnjoyer03 (talk) 04:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I just want to suggest the minor intro is quite overweighted and possess way more acquisition on the phrase observation such as Jat spelt also Jaat and Jatt which was undisputed expansion perform by @Dimpies [1] on his latest edit and In additional, the supporting line of article detail is partially just bit more exposure of Jat integral definition thus, hypothetically emphasised the literal meaning of Jat into such narrow complexity of Jatt and Jaat without consolidating any professional commitment In my genuine consideration i would likely to recommend to add the alternates of Jat such as Jatt with double "t" and Jaat with long vowel "a" with other notable word derivative such as Jutt or Zutt^[1] into a whole ethical section of terminology which he unfortunately not mentioned prior to the proximity of Jat entity

Comment: I thinks it should genuinely need an dedicated acknowledgment in the terminology to ensure an systematic resemblance of Jat identity. Thank and regard

Approach me for more reference

^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]

References

^ ^a ^b Maclean 1984, p. 45; Nizami 1994, p. 57; ʿAthamina 1998, p. 355; Wink 2002, p. 156; Anthony 2011, p. 178; Ehsan Yarshater 2015, p. 7; Malik 2020, p. 42; Bosworth 2012
^ Pushpa (2018-06-02). "Social Environment, Dresses and Food of Two Main Communities before Exodus". International Journal of Multidisciplinary and Current Research. 4 (May-June-2016): 543. However, in Haryana they are known only as Jat or Jatt or Jutt, a name popularly derived3 from Paninian term Jatta which denotes union or federation or confederation (jana or Sangha) of the Ayudhajivi (warrior tribes) of contemporary Panjab and Sindh, where they are still called Jatta or Jutt.
^ Fleet, J. F. (1901). "Tagara; Tēr". Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland: 543. ISSN 0035-869X. About twenty-seven miles towards the west-north-west from Bijapur in the Bombay Presidency, there is a town, the chief town of a Native State, the name of which is Jat, or more strictly Jatt. I have been at the town, more than once. And I know that its true name is Jat, Jatt.
^ Sumra, Mahar Abdul Haq (1992). The Soomras. Beacon Books. p. 78. Even today they take pride in being called Jats. The word Jat is the same as Scyth, Zatt, Jatt, Jatt, (a camel- driver) and Gette etc. Everywhere a Jat is an agriculturist. The Sumerians (of the Archaeologists) had two traditions: {{cite book}}: line feed character in |quote= at position 177 (help)
^ Singh, K. S. (1994). Haryana. Anthropological Survey of India. ISBN 978-81-7304-091-7.

118.136.81.19 (talk) 15:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[:0-1] Maclean 1984, p. 45; Nizami 1994, p. 57; ʿAthamina 1998, p. 355; Wink 2002, p. 156; Anthony 2011, p. 178; Ehsan Yarshater 2015, p. 7; Malik 2020, p. 42; Bosworth 2012

[2] Pushpa (2018-06-02). "Social Environment, Dresses and Food of Two Main Communities before Exodus". International Journal of Multidisciplinary and Current Research. 4 (May-June-2016): 543. However, in Haryana they are known only as Jat or Jatt or Jutt, a name popularly derived3 from Paninian term Jatta which denotes union or federation or confederation (jana or Sangha) of the Ayudhajivi (warrior tribes) of contemporary Panjab and Sindh, where they are still called Jatta or Jutt.

[3] Fleet, J. F. (1901). "Tagara; Tēr". Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland: 543. ISSN 0035-869X. About twenty-seven miles towards the west-north-west from Bijapur in the Bombay Presidency, there is a town, the chief town of a Native State, the name of which is Jat, or more strictly Jatt. I have been at the town, more than once. And I know that its true name is Jat, Jatt.

[4] Sumra, Mahar Abdul Haq (1992). The Soomras. Beacon Books. p. 78. Even today they take pride in being called Jats. The word Jat is the same as Scyth, Zatt, Jatt, Jatt, (a camel- driver) and Gette etc. Everywhere a Jat is an agriculturist. The Sumerians (of the Archaeologists) had two traditions: {{cite book}}: line feed character in |quote= at position 177 (help)

[5] Singh, K. S. (1994). Haryana. Anthropological Survey of India. ISBN 978-81-7304-091-7.

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